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Page 1, Page 2 Content ---- ---- had a spreadsheet at launch, still up-to-date on rune ratings, basic set bonuses and stat ratings/dr's but some of class sets changed and some fusions have changed. rather than update my sheet i'd rather wait it out for when they redo the whole thing again. | |} ---- huh? I fail to see the issue here. Weapon. Generally higher item level = better weapon, which has higher assault rating. Bigger number, bigger damage, me caveman. Gear. Bigger number, bigger power, caveman like power. Runes: Strikethrough = Hit Chance, me caveman no like missing, me like bash skulls. Vigor = More damage when you take less damage, caveman feel stronger when me not hurting, me bash skulls harder! Multi-hit vs Crit and Crit Sev is where you have to figure out if you are a crit class or a multi hit class. Maybe I should read my amps and bonuses that i've been leveling with from 1 to 50? But caveman no strong at reading, oh well. I fail to see how this is overly complicated and convoluted? If you are trying to min-max, which pretty much doesn't matter until BiS gear, then you've most likely learned any delicate intricacies there are when getting into runing and stat priority over time, experience, and research, and in that case, the original goal has more or less been met? TL;DR - you don't need spreadsheets to be effective. Bigger number = better in a general sense; how can it possibly get any simpler than that? Edited December 12, 2015 by MoePork | |} ---- ---- The Enigma guides are all over the class forums on this very website. What's hilarious is that you think so highly of yourself that you think someone who makes a website was paying attention to what you said and changed something. I looked at the website almost immediately after you posted your reply and there was nothing wrong with the guide's readability. Your browser must have loaded it incorrectly the first time. Edited December 12, 2015 by Naunet | |} ---- try wildstar subreddit. there are a lot of good links on the side bar on runes, classes, f2p and guild recruitment. That being said Carbine puts absolutely 0 effort forth to bring any sort of guide to light on their forums, barely anything is stickied. if i go to a specific class forum i expect there to be a sticked class guide or atleast a sticked post with links to resources on said class. carbine doesnt do this and it sucks to see so many people ask the same stuff over and over again even though its been answered already just because the topics get buried. | |} ---- That idiom does not work here. What we are seeing is two groups of gamers whose ideologies are antithetical to one another and so each sees the others opinion as invalid or lacking in logic. Both are right in their own respect and trouble only arises when the assimilation of these ideologies is attempted. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- You don't. You have to if you want to understand the very deep aspects provided for those who enjoy that kind of thing, but if it's not for you, there are more simolistic resources that will get you along just fine. | |} ---- 3rd party websites are the exact opposite of "easily accessible" unless it's linked on the game's forums - which again, the majority of spreadsheets and guides (including the Enigma guides) are. The game forums are the first place I look for information on the game/my class. Incredible! | |} ---- ---- ---- There are a few assumptions about elitism in gaming that I'd like to clear up for you. The majority of players need to be told what to do by the minority. The minority are the controlling hand in deciding what is and is not optimal. All players are capable of figuring out how to play this game (or any game for that matter). It is a conscious choice to seek out information rather than figure it out for themselves. It is perfectly fine to choose to look for help due to either lack of time or desire to test for yourself but there is no insidious motive on the part of the minority to be controlling those seeking information. Its actually the opposite; we want to give everyone the ability to progress further in the game and are willing to put in our time and effort to provide that information. Its actually rather generous and shows a love for both the game and all of its players. It would be elitist to withhold that information but that never seems to occur to anyone. Those players that do testing and provide that information are only interpreting game mechanics written by the developers. The testing we do is to figure out how to best play within the limits of the game's rules, not to determine those rules. Many act as if we're selfish in providing information on what should and shouldn't be done when in reality we are just figuring out what the game itself determines is best. Everyone is allowed to play games the way they want but not wanting to play with someone poorly optimized (in either gear, spec, or rotation) is no more elitist/selfish than choosing to play poorly, either through lack of effort or a rebellious attitude. To call one elitist and the other personal choice is a logical fallacy. The general distaste toward the upper minority, in this game at least, is both disrespectful and unjustified and its disheartening to see people continue with the anti-"elitist" group think when critiquing Wildstar. Edited December 12, 2015 by Daluu | |} ---- The community team really does need an overhaul. Having each class guide thread stickied shouldn't be something that has to be requested (and they still aren't stickied) but its not the only area where moderators seem to be lacking. Once I called out an ad hominem attack and I'm the one who gets the post removed and warning points for trolling and lack of civility. I do my fair share of trolling but calling out a personal attack for what it is is not one of those times and it was certainly more civil than the attack itself. Edited December 12, 2015 by Daluu | |} ---- Lol, I genuinely enjoy seeing drool buckets posts like this. This character will be the same guy wondering why NCsoft is shutting down the WS servers. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- All players ARE capable of figuring how how to play any game, but the game should do the job of teaching the player rather than making them figure everything out on their own. Go to YouTube and search for: Egoraptor Sequelitis MegaMan X (be aware it has NSFW language). That's how you train your players without obtrusive popups and interruptions. Intelligent design (for that type of game). A tutorial without the tutorial trappings. Learn by doing. The devs have done a great job of adding complexity and depth at the same time, but absolutely no lifeboats (tutorials) on how to navigate those waters. Would you expect any person sailing a ship to navigate without a compass, sextant, and astrolobe? You end up like that idiot Christopher Columbus that landed on some islands and called it 'India' and then proceeded to wholesale slaughter the entire native population. That idiot has a holiday yet so many more deserving people do not. The game needs tutorials. It needs developer guidance. It needs the removal of incorrect information (new 50s being told by the game to go do veteran dungeons immediately). Considering the website in your signature 'Enigma' is not accessible or searchable unless you specifically look for 'enigma wildstar guides', your spew about 'controlling those seeking information' is exactly what is happening. The hypocrisy is astounding. Addons and addon authors generally create stuff for the love of the game and to selflessly help other players; there is no doubt about it and I ♥ the ones that do a fantastic job of it. As for websites? Well that would be iffy since few WildStar fan sites have accurate and updated info that is easily found by general search terms. Try a few searches like 'wildstar player guides' or 'wildstar pve guides' and so on. Search the way a newbie would search and see what you find. Use different search engines other than Google for a change. Put yourself in their shoes instead of hypocritically doing the very thing you seem to be speaking against. When I've personally responded to several people (elitists) who are forum-warriors and keep telling others to 'go back to another MMO' and 'good riddance' then that is the elitist toxicity I am referring to when talking about it. People are NOT CHOOSING to be sub-optimal at playing the game. They cannot FIND the information easily with internet searches or in-game. When the only solutions offered tend to be 'go to reddit/forums' or 'just join a guild/circle' then those same people will choose to leave the game. They HAVE made that choice in droves. They did it before and many more of them did so when F2P launched. Elitists are the ones that join a random queue, mix with other random people that may not be on the same skill level, then proceed to belittle and treat them like trash rather than just queue with a full group of their fellow elitist players on the same level of skill/playtime. Don't even start with me about this whole 'elitists are just testers and doing what the game says' and all that. The game doesn't tell players to treat each other poorly due to lacking specialized and detailed knowledge on game systems and mechanics. I'm not calling someone elitist for being good at the game or not stopping to help everyone who needs it. I'm calling someone elitist (or many other words I can't write) because they express an open disdain and contempt for any other players not on the same skill level and actively go out of their way to ruin the experience for them until the other players quit. People give crap to raiders, but many raiders are in a guild and people CHOOSE to join that specific guild to participate in that content. They can choose other guilds and it may or may not work out. Hell, one really quick way to be distanced from that type of toxic elitism is to just /gquit if it is bad enough. But PvPers tend to be an entirely different basket. Outside of completely turning off or hiding all the chat in a PvP area, there is no way to escape the ALL CAPS toxic cupcakes or the 'premades in level 6-14 bracket' type of players. Derping around to die gets fairly old after a while. It isn't fun getting beat up on without any recourse. This game has depth & complexity but does absolutely nothing worthwhile to ease players into learning the systems outside of near-useless tutorials (runecrafting) and outright omissions (too many things to list). Carbine quickly put in a tutorial on that stupid Madam Fey garbage. However they have yet to put a proper one in on how to rune up properly and what is worthwhile to get and not to get based on your class. Even some basic 'since you are X class you should focus on X stats on your runes' would help. And the elitists? Point me to some google docs spreadsheet and tell me 'read it and figure it out scrub'. That's elitism in a nutshell. Edited December 15, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- duh, google solves everything. On the guides, things change every 1-3 months for a class. Go look at pre-f2p warrior guide, than look at one now. It will be outdated. Heck, go look at one from 2 weeks ago, outdated. Guides only get you so far and on top of that, figure it out yourself. If your going to complain about a guide on how to maximize your character, and you don't want to do the legwork to figure it out, than your in the wrong, not the elitist dude that did it for you. | |} ---- I am just curious if reading a spreadsheet is too difficult for you. not trolling. but if you have certain learning disabilities that can make this difficult, i now understand your frustration. but assuming you had some type of schooling and college education on top of that, you should know how to read a spreadsheet. you post so much about elitists and toxic attitudes when you are one of the most toxic people on the forums that i read. and you are a fairly new player, making a lot of baseless assumptions. i think i now know why the pvp servers died. the pvpers killed them. | |} ---- Nail on the head. | |} ---- There are two definitions for what elitism entails. an attitude that a group should exert greater influence than others due to a number of qualities (perceived or not) the use of exclusivity or selectivity of a group, usually to prevent progress of some sort The first definition is obviously not applicable since we in no way have any control over design decisions. At most we help solve bugs which improves the experience for everyone, not just a select few, We also provide suggestions for improvements but all manner of players do so because everyone has that opportunity. The second definition is more inline with what you define as elitism. What you are suggesting is that our pointing you to a resource that either we or another community member made is "elitist". But that does not go with the definition in the slightest. An openly available resource is the exact opposite of elitist by its very nature. But you seem to put emphasis on telling someone to read it. Let me make something abundantly clear. No consumer of a game has any obligation to help out another consumer of the game. The more dedicated minority do testing for themselves to figure out how to maximize their performance and could easily stop there. But they don't because typically they love the game they're playing and want everyone else to enjoy it the way they do. So they take their own time to write guides and answer questions which again is the exact opposite of elitist. They are making sure that everyone can have just as much chance to succeed as anyone else. If all you have to do is go read a guide or look at a spreadsheet that spells out what you need to be doing you should be thankful those players are nice enough to help other players out. If your frustration is with how difficult it is to understand the more intricate aspects of the game (a subjective measurement) then you have a problem with the game, not the player trying to help you. If your frustration is with the lack of resources available or the time it takes to find them then you have a problem with Carbine, not the player trying to help you. Edited December 15, 2015 by Daluu | |} ---- Nobody here cares about newer players and everyone has to only conform to what the elitists/veterans believe is the 'right' way to do things. Enjoy piloting the sinking ship. Like the OP, I am 'done' in this thread. There is no getting through to certain people at this point no matter how many times it is repeated. Forums, random 'Enigma' guides that aren't accessible by general search terms, and most WildStar fan sites with useful updated info being only known to those who hear about it from others or are told about it from others (if they are lucky). Information is being purposefully withheld in an elitist fashion to further subdivide the WildStar playerbase so the 'hardcore' players can continue to tell others 'you are the problem' and 'go back to your other MMO'. It is secluded in toxic and newbie-hostile forums and yet time and again these silly forums are seen as a 'resource' for new players. Nope, they are not. It has to be on a webpage or somewhere that isn't giving RC4-only browser warnings so that newbies actually want to use it. It has to ideally be something mentioned in the game they're playing without having to alt-tab to do research for what should be entertainment. I mean it isn't boss fights or raiding, just something as basic as runing is so complex for so many reasons and so little is ever explained. But no the problem is the 'filthy casuals' and goodness forbid Carbine do some due diligence to put in some tutorials. Goodness forbid some of these elitists bother to post their info outside the RC4-only forums or outside of Reddit on a website that is accessible via general search terms. I'm sticking around for the housing, but the rest of you can sit in your cave here and argue back and forth among each other. The OP of this thread is vindicated with each and every post like the ones I quoted above. Completely lost people in their ivory towers can't possibly understand the struggles of anyone 'beneath' them. How dare they not be able to do X when I can do it just fine! Just practice! It is so easy you are LAZY for not doing it! And so on. Elitism is elitism. If it looks/walks/quacks like a duck then I am calling it a duck. Daluu you are not anywhere near as smart as you think you are. And if you or anyone you know is in charge of the Enigma guides, you might wanna spend less time playing forum-warrior to defend elitism/hardcore-only mentality and make those Enigma guides searchable on Google. (It is something called Search Engine Optimization, have fun with it). Edited December 15, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- ---- Oh my god, Cupcake. "Information is hard/impossible to find!" *indicates a few readily accessible locations for information* "Everyone is elitist and withholding information!" *indicates they're more than happy to have discussions/teach people about things/help them gear/whatever* "Everyone wants new players to conform to how they think the game should be played!" Yup, I was right. There is literally no winning with you. No, I am not elitist. In fact, I've taken great pains - even though you have been really annoying me in some of these threads - to keep my tone as civil and even as friendly as possible when addressing your concerns. But I give up. I spend a great deal of my time helping new players, running things that present no material benefit to me aside from them just being fun, answering questions when I have the answers, or pointing people to places that might have the answers if I don't know them. If you don't want to listen to anyone, then I guess there's nothing more to be said. | |} ---- Wha....? This guy HAS to be trolling now. Either that or he didn't read a single thing; especially Daluu's post which clearly defined what elitism is. Please don't take this bait, people. Edited December 16, 2015 by MoePork | |} ---- ---- Enigma Wildstar Guides - First result Wildstar Class Guides - First result There is really no way to respond to anything else you've said because it doesn't reflect any comprehension of the posts you're responding to or a general understanding of the reality you're discussing. Edited December 16, 2015 by Daluu | |} ---- Selective perception is a very strong cognitive bias that can actually change how one sees the world. Either that or someone has taken trolling too far. Edited December 16, 2015 by Daluu | |} ---- Man, that sure helps new players. This guy with his long dissertation posts, campaining for new players on the forums with balloons, confetti and fireworks.... but when it comes to actually helping people in game - naahhhhh 3 wipes and I'm out, noobs! (oh, don't forget stat food for level 10 Academy!) | |} ---- and flasks, boosters, and fully runed out gear! | |} ---- ---- Because developers have long admitted that a majority of the MMO player base does not visit the game's forums. So, given that such is known by the developers, common sense says that if you want the average casual player in your game (i.e. the money), put the information inside the friggin game and make it easily accessible. Either that, or don't try to design any sort of complex system. Because otherwise, all you'll do in the end is bleed your player base. Which Carbine seems to be very good at doing. As a personal note, there are close to 10 of us that play MMOs between myself, the wife, my 22 year old son, my two best friends, at cetera. The games that held them the longest (and varies between them as to which title) were: City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Star Wars: The Old Republic. All of them very accessible games. Meanwhile, of my entire circle, I am the only one that ever visits a game forum. They've been playing MMOs for over 10 years, and have never gone to a game's forum. Not even once. Edited December 16, 2015 by Vanguardian | |} ---- I do agree that many of the systems in Wildstar are too complex for what they are but its not beyond the scope of much critical thinking. What level of thought you think games should require is a different story and rather subjective. The problem with having all the information you need in game (i.e. a guide) for either classes, runing, etc. is that a lot of the time what is optimal is not necessarily intended to be optimal. I think a situation of having dev provided guides in game would make for even more toxic exchange between the two groups being discussed. Now if you want to have those more dedicated players to have their own guides put into the game, thats great. But money would have to exchange hands for that to happen and I don't see that as a possibility. I also don't think visiting the forums is any issue at all because asking for help in-game can yield the same results; either through explanation or pointing to a forum thread with an explanation. Refusal to visit the forums (or any helpful site) is on you at that point, not the fault Carbine or any other player. MMOs are generally more complex than single player games and its been an unspoken understanding of the community for a long time that 3rd party resources (i.e. guides) or in game testing is required for succeeding at end game content. Edited December 16, 2015 by Daluu | |} ---- I don't feel there needs to be a ton of in-game guides. Guides on classes, rotations, et cetera aren't required. Like I said, my circle of RL players have never visited a game forum in all their years of playing MMOs. But, they are good players. They learned through trial and error (i.e. combat logs), and asking advice in the game's chat and from whatever guilds they're in. But when you have a system like Wildstar's runing system, or an idiot system that blatantly tells fresh Level 50s to go do Vet Dungeons, then you have a problem. Wildstar should have some sort of guide/tutorial for runing, and they definitely need to get rid of the Fresh lvl 50 Vet Dungeon declaration. Most current MMOs really don't need that many in-game guides, but most moved away from the Wildstar style runing system a little while ago, too. My people didn't play Wildstar. They had zero interest in the original launch's "Hardcore!" advertising, and didn't gain any new interest due to F2P. But had they tried it, I can assure Carbine they would not have gone to forums and such to figure out runing. They'd have left for whatever MMO they came from, and paid over there. Wildstar needs some work on my levels, though. Just the simple inability to queue for both PvE and PvP at the same time irritated me to no end. I barely log in anymore, sadly (and no, that was not the driving reason). Edited December 17, 2015 by Vanguardian | |} ---- This is a single indidivuals perspective so take from it what you will. I have an extensive history with MMO's and "relatively" hardcore raiding. I started with EQ Velious and raided at the top end throughout the PoK expansion. In every expansionI cleared all the raid content (save Plane of Time B) while it was very relevant. The clears may not have been world firsts or even server firsts (though we did have 1 in Luclin), but the job got done. The same goes for WoW Vanilla through Cataclysm.......... Fast forward to Wildstar and I can tell you that the burden of knowledge and arbitrary difficulty of this game shows it's ugly face extremely quickly once you hit max level. Many like to equate Wildstar to Everquest in terms of difficulty, where nothing was handed to you at any point in the game and a lot of boss fights were puzzles unto themselves. EQ still succeeded though, so the question that should be asked is, what changed? My response to that would be that the players themselves didn't change, just the landscape did and players simply adapted to it. I had just as much fun (or more) and felt the same level of accomplishment slogging through a heroic raid in WoW for 2hrs a couple nights per week as I did smashing my face against Vex Thal for 6-7 hr clear attempts multiple nights per week. Does this directly address the issue of accessibility in this game? No, but if an experienced MMO vet like myself finds a large portion of this game obtrusive and uneccessarily complex/difficult.........what are the odds that less experienced and more causal players also share that same notion. I think a lot of people are also getting the wrong idea from me, I want this game to succeed very badly because I LOVE the art design and combat. Any game that holds the proverbial carrot in front a players face, but never allows said player (or makes it incredibly difficult) to reach that carrot is just going to have hard time succeeding in today's market............especially one that has already been given a second chance. | |} ---- The problem is you're not looking at this objectively yourself, you're not thinking "gee I wonder how the VAST MAJORITY of people like to play games". I love the Enigma guides they're great, however if I told my mates to read them and the rune guides they'd probably just stop playing (if they were playing). It doesn't matter if you think that's lazy because "how hard is it to google", you thinking that doesn't keep any players playing the game now does it? Casuals are important, because through sheer numbers they keep revenue up and the queues times down. As Vangaurdian stated, most gamers have ZERO interest in getting on the forums and reading guide after guide. A lot of these players would be completely happy to have their points auto spent for them or alternatively... The best thing Carbine could do is in the LAS have a tick box/drop down menu to show "community suggested builds" like Enigmas that would highlight where the player should be spending their ability/amp points. This for two good reasons, Enigma guides are basically what anyone looks at anyway and secondly it would be a nice nod from the devs to Enigma for doing the guides for the community. Same with the runes in gear, when you hit purple ilvl 50+ gear there should be somewhere on the rune item screen that shows recommended runes to slot for a class if you're dps or support. Edited December 17, 2015 by H3rboss | |} ---- ---- beattle, I've seen you post multiple critique's of player opinions............but you've offered up aboslutely nothing of substance yourself. So I ask you, is there anything relevant you plan on adding to any of the current discussions........... or are you going to continue with the "noob bashing". | |} ---- Show me where I have ever bashed "noobs". That was not a bash directed at new players, that was a snide remark directed at the people that like to blame us casuals for trying to nerf the *cupcake* out of this game, or the ones that like to disparage casuals. And BTW Mr. Pot, it is nice to meet you. Signed, Mrs. Kettle. Yup, thought so. Edited December 18, 2015 by beattlebilly | |} ---- ---- ---- So you want me to look at something subjective, objectively? There is no be all, end all right answer. There is just two different groups of gamers who want this game to go in their desired direction. Also, "casuals" are not necessary for an MMO to succeed. If Carbine had executed many things much better then the type of game this was meant to be would have held the right amount of players. Their original goal was 200-300k subs. No matter what Yashfan or anyone else who isn't apart of the original target playerbase says, this game isn't dying due to "catering to the hardcore". Its dying because Carbine has and continues to make many mistakes both in design and execution. | |} ---- ---- This is something that an addon developer can do. Sadly though the people it would help most are the ones that tend to be allergic to 3rd-party addons. | |} ---- Edit: I realize I misunderstood your statement. You are concerned about escalation. I'll leave the rest of my post anyway :) Simple runes in non-raid gear. It should ease you into the process- you get gear from a dungeon, it will be functional, but non-optimal. Bonus is you can probably equip an upgrade right away. And if you want to tweak it you can. Simple for the casual, more depth for the min-maxer. Once you get into raids, you have to work up the runes from scratch. But by now, you should have an idea of how they work and what they do. If you don't like this, then pre-slot ilvl 70 gear, and force people to rune out dungeon gear. But my personal feeling is that raids is where runes start to get more complicated and more thought should be required. Edited December 17, 2015 by SlyJeff | |} ---- I don't know if I should agree or disagree with that statement, to be honest. I'm trying to think of one MMO that has been truly successful in the current market that did so without casuals. And I can't think of one. An MMO definitely needs its casuals to survive, so to say otherwise is delusional. However, it also needs its end-game players and serious progression raiders. While us casuals usually won't openly admit it, it seems, those are the people running the fan sites, making the guides, and are the glue that keeps things together in a third-party format so that others can have an easier time with the instances, character builds, rotations, et cetera. Look at SWTOR. They've pissed on their serious end-game people, and are suffering for it. Already people are waiting for Dulfy, a huge supporter of the game and a progression player, to walk away. And it is looking very possible. And she's a huge source of their third-party marketing. Marketing that EA gets for free, mind you. EA is now resorting to cheap gimmicks to keep people subbed, and just this week I got an email that if I came back and subbed for a month, then they would give me a second month free (yeah, still: No thanks). So, a successful MMO must have both demographics of players. As far as why Wildstar failed, to say that it was only due to bad decisions and not due to its hardcore focus is also not completely true. Since Q1 of original launch I've also watched feedback across the internet, and the difficulty of the end-game was as much of a talking point for leaving as the bugs, Carabine mismanagement, the toxicity of the hardcore community, and so forth. So again, it was a confluence of reasons, including Wildstar's attempt to focus on hardcore. And it was that hardcore focus that made me skip the game until this past June, when I got it for a mere $20. Edited December 17, 2015 by Vanguardian | |} ---- Do you have a source for this? Or are you just making these numbers up out of thin air? I seem to remember Carbine being all *cupcake* and vinegar during the Wildstar hype about how they were going to topple babby's first MMO WoW and how they would have a million subs. Etc. Hardcore. Breakout gameplay. | |} ---- Was mentioned in one of the very first streams, as well as some of the old forum posts, recapping these streams before the grand forum wipe. Some of the old posts about these numbers: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/80031-wildstar-has-300k-accounts/page-6 | |} ---- this would make their break even with some profit probably around $3M - $4.5M per year, which seems highly possible. There are many companies today who operate on a lot less. hell there are companies that operate and never generate a profit, but investors keep it going because they believe in the products. | |} ---- Oh oH, you're not allowed to use that logic in discussions. It makes you a white knight and ignorant. | |} ---- From a player to player perspective, yes the issue is of course subjective, but from an entire player base it's just not. There's very clear sections of the gaming community and how they like to play games, why is this even a discussion? What I don't get is why they can't all be catered to and what on earth you could possibly have against the game trying to do so. "Hand holding makes people LAZY!" Who gives a toss? You aren't paying them, they aren't on an internship trying to prove their worth to anyone! They're players who just want to log on and play a game that oozes charm and has a fun combat system, not read guide after guide to even be useful in Vet Dungeons. This attitude is just elitism in the gamer sense, pure and simple. The game is a game, there's absolutely no reason that all types of gamers can't be catered for. Bring in some hardmode Vet Dungeons and some ingame guidance to class builds and rune crafting/slotting and boom, lots of player types happy and all you have to do is ignore the fact they exist. Do you think as an adult you could manage that? The initial launch of trying to "cater to the hardcore crowd" was pure insanity and I don't know how it passed any kind of company sanity check. Does anyone really think the Hardcore crowd is more than a fraction of the general/casual gaming crowd? EDIT: BTW, I'm more of a hardcore player, I read all the guides I can and I'm broke as hell from runing every new piece of gear I get as best as I can. I just don't have my head in my annoos and am aware there's more than just my type of gamer. Edited December 17, 2015 by H3rboss | |} ---- Precisely this. Did you think to ask anybody about this stuff before you ragequit? Are you not in a guild? All it takes is asking in /advice or asking a guild member who understands the game a bit better. There are scores of people willing and ready to help new players at any time, and you haven't utilized any of them. There are tons of guilds willing to help new players get geared up, and you seem to have avoided them as well. This is not a single player game, OP. Why are you making it unnecessarily hard on yourself and then trying to blame the game for the problem? | |} ---- So many people completely missing the point here. Do you expect every player that leaves to post something like this on the forums so you can guide them in the right direction with your friendly attitude? The question that needs to be answered is how do you support/guide players enough to make them not feel too overwhelmed at elder game with having to read guide after guide on builds and runes so they don't have to endure "your dps sucks n00b" when they rando queue dungeons or they get crit to death from walls of text in the guides they had to read and quit. Nobody cares and it's just pointless drivel to talk about how you or I would approach the situation or how the OP should because 99% of players don't make useful feedback posts like this on the forums in the first place, they just leave. | |} ---- Or they spend 10 pages online arguing semantics and opinions. | |} ---- The thing with this "ecMMOsystem" is that while most casuals are indeed often oblivious to what the core contributes, it's not out of any sense of maliciousness, whereas some of the core have a bad habit of developing a diva attitude and generally hostile behavior out of nowhere, which only ever results in running the casuals out and in time the whole thing starts to collapse. Not to say the inverse doesn't happen though, case in point... +++ I admit, the idea that Dulfy is having their patience strained isn't a good thing, it's bad enough that TORhead is dead and SWTOR-Spy seems to have gone into "meh, whatever" mode. When the core crowd leaves, it can cause an MMO to become this wasteland of unanswered questions and lost knowledge, and the casuals that remain end up in an unending loop of directionless frustration until they too start to leave in droves. +++ I know it was certainly the case for me where the whole "hardcore only" sign made me ultimately walk pass the game despite how much the setting/aesthetic/humor originally grabbed my attention. And hell, even the idea of it going free-to-play wasn't a selling (so to speak) point, but rather it was the various bits of information I had gleamed from the forums leading up until the conversion that made me reconsider, and I'll even confess that certain forum-goers unknowingly contributed to me thinking more positively about the game and it's community. I'm a total fluke in that regards though, since as was mentioned, a lot of potential new players never go to the forums (even just to get their toes wet on what to expect). Edited December 23, 2015 by Dyxid | |} ----